Confusion of Ideas 201
Alternate title: What the Anarchists are right about.
I've been tailgunning some anarchists lately, mainly because I think they're naive and their world view is every bit as simplistic as the Communistic one. In other words, I think they have underestimated the perfidy of the Human Race, taken as a whole. While they probably aren't all right, they certainly aren't all wrong either. Here's some things we probably agree on. I say "probably" because I won't presume to know what they are thinking until they tell me. They tend to hate that.
World hunger is not an agricultural problem, it's a political one.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1017-01.htm
Q. What makes a refugee a refugee?
A. Denial of citizenship.
NOT the solution:
http://us.oneworld.net/
http://worldwithoutborders.com/archive.shtml
"I'm like anyone else on this planet -- I'm very moved by world hunger. I see the same commercials, with those little kids, starving, and very depressed. I watch those kids and I go, 'Fuck, I know the FILM crew could give this kid a sandwich!' There's a director five feet away going, 'DON'T FEED HIM YET! GET THAT SANDWICH OUTTA HERE! IT DOESN'T WORK UNLESS HE LOOKS HUNGRY!!!' But I'm not trying to make fun of world hunger. Matter of fact, I think I have the answer. You want to stop world hunger? Stop sending these people food. Don't send these people another bite, folks. You want to send them something, you want to help? Send them U-Hauls. Send them U-Hauls, some luggage, send them a guy out there who says, 'Hey, we been driving out here every day with your food, for, like, the last thirty or forty years, and we were driving out here today across the desert, and it occurred to us that there wouldn't BE world hunger, if you people would LIVE WHERE THE FOOD IS! YOU LIVE IN A DESERT! YOU LIVE IN A FUCKING DESERT! NOTHING GROWS OUT HERE! NOTHING'S GONNA GROW OUT HERE! YOU SEE THIS? HUH? THIS IS SAND. KNOW WHAT IT'S GONNA BE A HUNDRED YEARS FROM NOW? IT'S GONNA BE SAND! YOU LIVE IN A FUCKING DESERT! GET YOUR STUFF, GET YOUR SHIT, WE'LL MAKE ONE TRIP, WE'LL TAKE YOU TO WHERE THE FOOD IS! WE HAVE DESERTS IN AMERICA -- WE JUST DON'T LIVE IN THEM, ASSHOLES!" - Sam Kinnison
I've been tailgunning some anarchists lately, mainly because I think they're naive and their world view is every bit as simplistic as the Communistic one. In other words, I think they have underestimated the perfidy of the Human Race, taken as a whole. While they probably aren't all right, they certainly aren't all wrong either. Here's some things we probably agree on. I say "probably" because I won't presume to know what they are thinking until they tell me. They tend to hate that.
World hunger is not an agricultural problem, it's a political one.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1017-01.htm
Q. What makes a refugee a refugee?
A. Denial of citizenship.
NOT the solution:
http://us.oneworld.net/
http://worldwithoutborders.com/archive.shtml
"I'm like anyone else on this planet -- I'm very moved by world hunger. I see the same commercials, with those little kids, starving, and very depressed. I watch those kids and I go, 'Fuck, I know the FILM crew could give this kid a sandwich!' There's a director five feet away going, 'DON'T FEED HIM YET! GET THAT SANDWICH OUTTA HERE! IT DOESN'T WORK UNLESS HE LOOKS HUNGRY!!!' But I'm not trying to make fun of world hunger. Matter of fact, I think I have the answer. You want to stop world hunger? Stop sending these people food. Don't send these people another bite, folks. You want to send them something, you want to help? Send them U-Hauls. Send them U-Hauls, some luggage, send them a guy out there who says, 'Hey, we been driving out here every day with your food, for, like, the last thirty or forty years, and we were driving out here today across the desert, and it occurred to us that there wouldn't BE world hunger, if you people would LIVE WHERE THE FOOD IS! YOU LIVE IN A DESERT! YOU LIVE IN A FUCKING DESERT! NOTHING GROWS OUT HERE! NOTHING'S GONNA GROW OUT HERE! YOU SEE THIS? HUH? THIS IS SAND. KNOW WHAT IT'S GONNA BE A HUNDRED YEARS FROM NOW? IT'S GONNA BE SAND! YOU LIVE IN A FUCKING DESERT! GET YOUR STUFF, GET YOUR SHIT, WE'LL MAKE ONE TRIP, WE'LL TAKE YOU TO WHERE THE FOOD IS! WE HAVE DESERTS IN AMERICA -- WE JUST DON'T LIVE IN THEM, ASSHOLES!" - Sam Kinnison
They turn those U-Hauls back at the border, Sam. It's a form of slavery.
posted by breakerslion @ 6:16 PM
16 comments
16 Comments:
I've always had trouble with the idea of Anarchy. I think it's naive & maybe giving up a little. But, I hesitate to judge too much as i'm not really sure what their "solution" is. Or what end will be achieved by it.
I have a brother that claims to have those ideals, but he brings it up whenever he's frustrated.
Now, you've got me studying this whole Anarchy philosophy. :) I've never really given it alot of thought, before.
My initial reaction to reading some essays by a 19th Century Anarchist Mikhail Bakunin & the quotes of a few other famous Anarchists is just what I said in my first comment. I see the purpose, but not the end.
Do you have anymore thoughts on Anarchy?
World hunger is a problem of a combination of a great deal of things two of which are agriculture, politics. Not everybody gets to live in a fruitful and relatively stable part of the world. Sure, it is possible to feed the population, but disparity seems to creep around - communism failed to solve that, but it was a good start.
Ever notice how all those "poor" village kids are 1/2 american so you think they are not so "foreign" looking. Give $$$..
Actually, I think a lot of them have already moved to the Twin Cities.
It's very simple, barkerslion. Do you sanction organized kidnapping, extortion, murder and coercion, yes or no? Should any product or service be provided at the point of a gun?
If your answer is no, then welcome to Market Anarchy.
If your answer is yes, then we have nothing left to say to each other.
World hunger is definitely a political problem. Other than that, just from looking at your post here, and not knowing anything about anarchy as a movement, it kind of sounds like maybe they just like letting off some steam.
How the heck can "anarchy" be a formal movement?
They should call it something else.
"Near Anarchy?" From the photo they look sort of irritable so I personally wouldn't say it to their face.
aka "Darius..."
Sadly, Franc, it's even simpler than that. Organized and disorganized kidnapping, murder, extortion, coercion, usury, bunco, and fraud will continue for as long as there are corrupt, dishonest, trusting, ignorant and naive people. It will do so with or without my sanction.
Quis custodes ipsos custodies?
Paul,
The picture is of the late Sam Kinnison. He was a man with a pretty thorough understanding of the machinery of power.
l>t,
Franc and his friends will do more justice to the theories to which they ascribe than I can.
As with most things I'll come to my own conclusions.
& With all political things, there seems to be the idealism, the realism & the truth.
Anarchism as a philosophy has some valid points.
Anarchy as a movement? in this point in time, i think it needs more direction.
It's often assumed that anarchism is the rejection of any sort of social organization. This view is very much mistaken. Anarchy is simply organization with the goal of getting rid of unnecessary coercion and hierarchy. It's the desire to implement true democracy, decentralization, and to give people the power to control their own destinies. Is it possible in our world to live with a perfect democracy and without social and political hierarchies? I don't know if that ideal is possible in practice, but I think we should at least hope to move in that direction (we have plenty of room for improvement at the moment). Anarchism is not directly opposed to a governing body either. It's just that that body must be truly democratically elected, instantly recallable, and must serve to further the liberty of the individual and not restrict it.
When looking into anarchist ideas, it's important to realize that there are many different schools of thought within anarchism. Most of them have common beliefs of decentralization, environmental principles (to some extent at least), and an end to political and economic hierarchies (our current political system and capitalism, respectively). On the very fringe are people like Franc though. Their type of "anarchism" (the vast consensus among anarchists is that "anarcho"-capitalism is far from any sort of anarchism at all, but is actually worse than the current system) is a view that political organization is dangerous because it is a possible road to equality. They want the only acceptable actions that one can take to better the world to happen in the marketplace, for here the a powerful minority is sure to be successful. To enforce property rights they envision private defense firms (essentially private armies). And yet somehow they cling to the belief that these private armies won't become a defacto government, and one that wouldn't even have to pretend to respond to popular opinion, but only to the almighty dollar. Take a look at their posts and they are constantly worried about the "plight" of the wealthy and powerful (Franc once made a post saying how the Nike CEO deserves the paycheck that he gets, if not more, and made another post about workers "wage gouging" when people were discussing the price gouging at the gas pump). So where should someone interested in anarchism look? Infoshop is pretty good, although I don't necessarily agree with everything they say or their emphasis.
I think the current system is simply unsustainable though, and something must be done. Radical changes do need to be made. Perhaps from a more conservative perspective (i.e., not talk of 'revolution', but 'evolution') is a fairly new book called America Beyond Capitalism. This book isn't self-described as being anarchistic, but many of the ideas in there are.
Thanks Delta, I think. Let's see if that throws the fat into the fire.
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely" - Lord Acton
"Men decide far more problems by hate, love, lust, rage, sorrow, joy, hope, fear, illusion, or some other inward emotion, than by reality, authority, any legal standard, judicial precedent, or statute." - Cicero
"Know thy enemy and know thyself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know thyself but not thy enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know thy enemy but not thyself, wallow in defeat every time." - Sun Tzu
Some root causes have very deep roots indeed, and cannot be realistically ignored.
Oh Gawd it's true, every word of it HAHAHA!
So much for the sterilization agents introduced into all of the Aid packaged food since the 50s..
I guess that plan ain't working.
Keep tailgunning and don't forget that Anarchy is
AN ARCH over Y...
Y (why) being reason...ergo Anarchy is simply a fanciful term for Jumping To Conclusions.
I suppose that I should clarify my flippancy.
Let's see how do I put this gently..Left to their own devices the great unwashed would resort to a primitive gun toting-street by street burning-rape and pillaging mob that would raze every institution that has ever been painstakingly achieved (albeit at a glacial rate) within a matter of hours.
As much as I loathe the hypocrisy of most of our semi functioning
'Estates' like our nearest relatives, the chimpanzees, our little war party would descend upon the next clan to surprise and kill competitive males and steal their females for breeding and strengthening our gang.
While some may have the discipline to govern their emotions and display altruistic tendencies I am embarrassed to admit that when the resources suddenly come up for grabs the most determined free agents (Bullys) will jump at the opportunity to capture and control the neccesities of life and make our lives a living hell.
I for one, refuse to give up Hot Running Water for the rest of my short life just so that I can scurry about the rubble long enough to say I told you so!
not talk of 'revolution', but 'evolution' that's great delta.
& this Some root causes have very deep roots indeed, and cannot be realistically ignored.
My agnostic secular humanist self, likes to believe in a higher consciousness. (Of a evolutionary sort)
I feel some current hierarchys are stiffling this process. I think anarchy is necessary at some point. It would be nice if us human beings were mature anough to handle it when it happens. But,we will never "grow up" as long as we let people convince what inherent sinners we are.
delta, I would call yours a practical Anarchism.
BTW, I am posting on anarchism, thanks to breakerslion for piqueing my interest. i would welcome some insightful comments,opinions, etc... because I am just figuring this out mayself.
Let's not forget that old devil called Climate Change. If it doesn't rain stuff won't grow.
"Everyones gotta eat" including locusts and whatever else is looking for its next Dinner.
A bit of weather change in a marginal landscape is a major disaster, and there's already someone else living in all the good bits.
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